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Polaris And Zero Motorcycles Ride Together To Build Electric Off-Road Vehicles And Snowmobiles

Polaris And Zero Motorcycles Ride Together To Build Electric Off-Road Vehicles And Snowmobiles 2020-09-30Leave a comment

electrical bike Polaris And Zero Bikes Experience Collectively To Construct Electrical Off-Street Automobiles And Snowmobiles

Illustration for article titled Polaris And Zero Motorcycles Ride Together To Build Electric Off-Road Vehicles And Snowmobiles

Picture: Zero Bikes

In what could show to be the largest deal within the off-road automobile group, the chief of the phase, Polaris, has teamed up with comparatively tiny Zero Motorcycles to develop the longer term contents of toy-haulers throughout America. With this unique 10-year deal, Polaris positive factors Zero’s 14 years of electrical propulsion experience, and Zero positive factors a broad platform and the potential for its know-how to finish up within the fingers of actually thousands and thousands of journey seekers. We spoke to the CEOs of each firms to attempt to get a greater perception into the tag-team deal.

Polaris completely dominates the side-by-side market with its RZR, Ranger and Common fashions, and it places a ton of snowmobiles out into the powder yearly. Not solely that, it additionally owns Indian Bike, three totally different boat firms, GEM and industrial utility automobile producer Taylor-Dunn. Polaris shifted nearly $7 billion in product throughout 2019, and a not insignificant portion of that was powered by electrical motors. So what does this juggernaut of vehicular building want with tiny little Zero Bikes?

Zero, based mostly in Scotts Valley, California, received’t let on precisely what number of electrical bikes it sells every year, however CEO Sam Paschel would let slip that it’s someplace between 2,000 and 10,000 items. It’s truthful to say that it’s in all probability on the upper finish of that quantity, as the corporate’s new SR/S has been its most profitable launch of all time, regardless of deliveries starting within the midst of a world pandemic and financial melancholy.

Zero’s years of expertise in creating and manufacturing compact, light-weight lithium-ion battery packs are constructed on its standing of being a pioneer in leaping on the electrical motorbike development, in all probability effectively earlier than it was financially viable. Now, having watched the demise of Alta and Brammo —extra on that in a minute — it’s the one main electric-only highway motorbike maker left standing. Clearly Zero has discovered what the others by no means may: a brand new enjoyable expertise delivered by way of a high quality and fairly priced product.

Whereas Zero has constructed its fame as a bike firm, Paschel makes it clear that he sees worth within the firm past its bodily merchandise. In any case these years, he says, Zero is a software program firm. The recently-developed Cypher III working system launched on the favored SR/F and SR/S is what units Zero aside from anybody else within the EV recreation. Much more than its battery tech and its waterproof electrical propulsion techniques, that is what makes Zero a viable accomplice for Polaris.

And Polaris isn’t small potatoes. Moreover the help on supply-chain administration, Zero will financially profit from no matter Polaris paid to supply this tech in addition to in economies of scale. As extra Zero motors are manufactured to be used by Polaris, the worth per unit will come down dramatically. This could translate to cheaper Zero EV bikes sooner or later.

This isn’t Polaris’ first foray into electrical propulsion

Polaris is fast to notice that it has been within the electrical recreation for a very long time. Along with electrical industrial automobiles from firms like Taylor-Dunn, Polaris owns the electric-only individuals mover GEM. It additionally bought all of Brammo, releasing the Brammo Empulse electrical motorbike as a Victory Empulse. With the demise of the Victory model, and the abject failure of the Empulse mannequin, the Brammo belongings have been shifted out of the corporate for a revenue.

Most intently associated to this dialogue, nevertheless, is the Polaris Ranger EV. In line with Polaris, it’s the greatest promoting electrical off-roader of all time, and I consider that. It’s just about the one one. Other than some manufacturers no person has ever heard of, an electrical John Deere Gator and the next-level vaporware bullshit Nikola NZT, the Ranger EV doesn’t actually have competitors.

The Ranger EV begins at $11,899 and owns the (admittedly restricted) market. With round 30 horsepower, 50 miles of vary and round 8 hours to recharge on a 110-volt circuit, it’s hardly bleeding edge know-how. With a 48-volt AC-induction motor and lead-acid battery chemistry, the Ranger EV is lifeless nuts dependable, however working a few decade behind the electrical curve.

The Ranger EV is already class-leading — hell, it virtually invented the category — however Polaris isn’t happy with sitting again and letting the world catch up. This take care of Zero will present its fashions with the latest tech, faster charging, extra energy and an improved working system. Are you able to think about how a lot enjoyable a Polaris RZR could be with an instantaneous 140 lb-ft of torque obtainable from Zero’s Z-Power everlasting magnet AC motor? I’m undecided I can.

What does the deal cowl?

I’ll be sincere, the minute I heard that Polaris and Zero could be teaming up my mind laser centered on the concept of an electrical Indian motorbike. Possibly a giant EV bagger, or an ultra-fun torque monster electrical FTR, or an EV around-town hopper just like the Scout. Sadly that’s decidedly not the case. The ten-year deal covers solely off-road automobiles and snowmobiles within the Polaris model.

Whereas I’m slightly bit dissatisfied this deal received’t result in any extra electrical road bikes available on the market, it ought to nonetheless result in some superior off-road EVs that I’d be glad to drive/trip. For one factor, the concept of decreasing your noise profile within the nice open air is attractive. In case you’re heading out into the woods or the desert to take pleasure in it, wouldn’t you fairly hear the birds chirping than the revs of your machine?

With nearly none of those electrical off-road machines available on the market, will individuals be beating down the doorways to purchase them after they come out? Effectively, proper now that’s in all probability a positive “no,” however by the point this mission pushes out its first child in late 2021 it is perhaps a bit extra of a desired factor. In line with Polaris, ski resorts have been trying to cut back the noise ranges of their snow machines, and an electrical snowmobile will surely assistance on that entrance. Add in that some nationwide parks are pushing for a ban on two-stroke engines altogether, pushing out the overwhelming majority of snowmobiles immediately.

And whereas this coming collectively was a completed deal effectively earlier than the California governor’s govt order final week, Gavin Newsom’s ban of brand name new ORV gross sales with any form of emissions after 2035 is actually wind within the sails of the Zero/Polaris boat. Anybody sufficiently forward of the curve on electrical ORVs will be capable of make enormous inroads when the day comes that inner combustion quads, side-by-sides and snowmobiles are pushed out.

Jalopnik’s dialogue with Polaris CEO Scott Wine:

Norman Mayersohn: I don’t know whether or not I’m studying an excessive amount of into it, however is the settlement with Zero strictly off-road?

Scott Wine: It’s strictly off-road automobiles and snowmobiles. You already know, clearly they’ve received an incredible motorbike. You’ve ridden them. They make nice bikes. So, we actually didn’t see the necessity proper now to construct a motorbike that competed with them, or to spend so much of time on the motorbike enterprise. We actually wanted assist with the off-road automobiles and snowmobiles, and that offers them the best quantity alternative to create a enterprise mannequin that’s financially helpful to them. So, it doesn’t imply that we received’t speak about motorbike concepts sooner or later, however proper now we’re very very centered on snowmobiles and off-road automobiles.

As a result of, curiously, as a result of they’ve constructed such good motorbike battery powerpacks, their battery density is best than anybody else we may discover, their BMS (battery administration system) is basically good, their electronics are spectacular, so it’s nearly a plug-and-play with our automobiles.

NM: Is that this for all lessons of off-road automobiles? Work and recreation?

SW: You already know, we’ve received daring ambition. My imaginative and prescient is finally to have the ability to provide prospects another to decide on between powertrains. If you need an inner combustion engine you will get it. If you need an electrical powertrain, you will get it. That’s going to take us a number of years to get to, so we’re simply going to work methodically by way of the portfolio, and the place we predict prospects want electrical alternate options essentially the most is the place we’ll deliver the primary product. We’re not able to make a product announcement, however we do anticipate we’ll have the primary product out of this partnership able to be launched in late 2021.

NM: Forgive me if I misunderstood the settlement, however is it strictly for know-how, or will or not it’s know-how and elements? Is Polaris going to be constructing stuff for Zero?

SW: It’s actually a contractual settlement they usually’re going to be our powertrain provider. Battery packs, management techniques, motors. We now have the choice to supply the stuff by way of our conventional provide chains constructed to Zero’s specs. So our provide chain administration and capabilities is way higher. A part of the settlement is that we drive financial savings in order that they will profit on the motorbike facet, and that finally brings worth to us. We get a part of that financial savings from what we purchase. It truly is a win-win state of affairs. They’re going to have a brand new enterprise mannequin, and we’re going to have an incredible provider of electrical powertrains.

NM: Once we’ve talked earlier than, you’ve instructed me that Polaris would do electrical when the time is true. And, you already know, we noticed the Brammo deal come and go. What’s the lesson or the takeaway? How is Polaris now smarter past that?

SW: Effectively, we’re actually smarter. And also you’re in all probability being type, however I used to be a naysayer on electrical. It didn’t work for our trade. We tried with Brammo, however we noticed no path to generate profits. Finally we bought it to Cummins and did OK financially. What we wish and what we waited for was, when are you able to get that mixture of energy, weight, pricing and efficiency. It’s these 4 attributes, and it’s important to get all of them dialed in.

You already know, we don’t have the identical actual property that automotive has to place batteries to get the vary and efficiency that they want. So what’s actually occurred is that over the past a number of years battery prices have come down, the efficiency, they’ve been capable of construct the software program to get higher efficiency out of the batteries, and what Zero has completed with density is determine how to not take up as a lot room. So, you already know, we perceive the use circumstances of our prospects rather well, and about half of our prospects have mentioned they’d think about an electrical different. So between the price coming down, vary going up and efficiency getting higher, it simply appeared like the fitting time to make the wager.

NM: The place does Slingshot slot in with all of this?

SW: I feel that there’s actually going to be an electrical Slingshot sooner or later. It’s a lower-volume product for us proper now, so it’s not our first precedence, however actually over the following 4 or 5 years, I feel you’ll be able to anticipate nearly all of our merchandise to have an electrical different. An electrical Slingshot is an effective match for us.

NM: Are there any plans for electrical off-road racing? Extra particularly, any plans to run in Excessive E?

SW: Did my racers let you know to ask that query? We don’t have plans to try this proper now. Our [Indian] flat-track racers are doing a implausible job, we received one by way of eight final weekend. However actually that’s the wonderful thing about electrical, I imply, the efficiency is implausible. The torque and energy curves are simply good, and Zero has form of managed it.

NM: Will constructing electrical automobiles find yourself providing you with emissions credit? Is that one thing you’ll be able to promote to different producers who lag behind you?

SW: It in all probability will. It’s not a part of the calculation, however you already know we’ve been in electrical for nearly all the time I’ve been at Polaris. Within the final decade we’ve bought a billion {dollars} value of electrical automobiles. So we’re not likely new to the house, what we’re new to is bringing it to our powersports enterprise the place we are able to drive the efficiency that individuals want. And I feel with the amount that we’ll be capable of ramp up fairly rapidly, there actually ought to be some credit there.

Bradley Brownell: Any ideas on electrical boats? I do know electrical energy and water doesn’t normally combine.

SW: Definitely. There’s a few rivals which might be doing that now, and there are some communities the place that’s the one possibility you’ll be able to have. I wouldn’t say it’s near-term in our plans, however I wouldn’t rule something out.

NM: We all know that Harley-Davidson has made a whole lot of bulletins about smaller, low-powered, scooters and e-bikes with electrical energy. Is there a business case for any of that stuff for Polaris?

SW: Proper now I’m not going to comply with something that our Milwaukee competitor has completed electrically. Truly, I’ve lately ridden a few of our prototype automobiles that we’ve designed, and due to our Goupil and GEM and Taylor-Dunn we all know lots about micromobility, and I feel we’re stretching that in a whole lot of instructions, so I wouldn’t rule something out. It in all probability doesn’t require a Zero powertrain, however…

NM: Are there locations now the place inner combustion engine powered off-road automobiles can’t go? Are there nationwide or state parks not permitting them? Would we achieve any entry by going electrical to anyplace we are able to’t entry right now?

SW: There’s not too many who require electrical, however take Yellowstone park for instance. We don’t promote any snowmobiles for touring in Yellowstone as a result of they require a four-stroke. And we may develop a four-stroke snowmobile or we may simply go straight to electrical and take over the entire enterprise.

And snowmobiles is an attention-grabbing one. I believed it was the dumbest thought ever when it was first offered to me. Why on earth would anybody need an electrical snowmobile? After which they talked concerning the use circumstances in numerous locations, particularly ski resorts. The flexibility to remain charged and take away the noise and scent at a ski resort, it’s an incredible potential.

In some ways, throughout our powersports enterprise, there’s a possible for a quicker adoption of electrical powertrains than there was in automotive.

NM: Invariably, everyone will get caught up within the infrastructure and charging potential query. Notably off-road, the entry to charging is tough. Is there a plan afoot to handle any of that?

SW: We make turbines now, similar to Honda does, we promote turbines. It does present a fairly helpful case for occurring an extended tenting journey, not solely to run the lights and warmth, but in addition to doubtlessly cost your electrical automobile. However we’ve appeared on the future, you already know, what does a hybrid automobile appear to be? Loads of totally different choices. Proper now, we’re simply pure electrical with Zero powertrains.

BB: I do know that there are some rivals within the off-road house which might be doing a little hybrid stuff proper now, however is anybody else making any huge strikes in electrical?

SW: Nobody else has completed something huge. They’ve talked about idea automobiles. However our Ranger EV, which is a lead-acid battery product, is the best promoting off-road automobile of all time in electrical. And we don’t promote very lots of them. So, no person’s completed it but. We all know there’s going to be lots of people going after it, and we absolutely anticipate to be the innovation leaders on this house.

NM: What’s it that Brad and I are lacking?

SW: Since you perceive what they do, it truly is the instant-offense that we are able to get by with the ability to accomplice with them. You already know, I talked a few product coming from this late subsequent yr, but when we have been doing this all from scratch, discovering our personal battery provider, discovering our personal BMS system and constructing our personal controllers after which integrating all of it, we’d be three or 4 years out. I feel it’s simply the belief that two firms with an identical tradition about delivering worth and excessive efficiency, we really feel like we are able to accomplish that collectively.

Jalopnik’s dialogue with Zero CEO Sam Paschel:

Bradley Brownell: What was the sparking level for this three way partnership with Polaris?

Sam Paschel: Effectively first, if you happen to have a look at Polaris, they’re primary. They’re primary on the planet, they’re the most effective. They got here in and had a need to take what we perceive about electrical powertrains, and the combination of these techniques, and take the most effective inner combustion engine off-road automobiles on the planet. Mainly, take our experience and their experience transferring merchandise into the market which might be going to shock customers and provides them an exhilarating driving expertise. And be the most effective electrical off-road automobiles on the planet.

I feel there was mutual curiosity. Once we noticed what we have been nice at every single day — constructing a robust motorbike enterprise and a number of the greatest electrical bikes on the planet — and noticed their experience in chassis and off-road, it was a very pure match. We created a whole lot of synergy between the manufacturers.

BB: About what number of electrical bikes are you constructing in a yr nowadays?

SP: We’re privately held and I feel that’s a giant profit to us. So what I sometimes say is I’ll present a spread. It’s a really broad vary, between 2,000 and 10,000 bikes per yr. However we’re averaging, we’ll see the place it lands this yr when it ends, however we’re rising at a few 40 % compounding annual development charge. In order that’s large development for us, off of what’s a sub-10,000 unit base.

BB: With that in thoughts, the place do you see this enterprise going? Is it going to be Zero producing motors for Polaris, or is Polaris sending you chassis and also you upfit them?

SP: They’re an outstanding industrial group they usually produce a ton of off-road automobiles, and we’re going to play to these strengths. We’re going to be coping with them on a know-how partnership. From a provide chain standpoint, I feel it’s nonetheless up within the air. Basically, we’re offering a 14-year expertise and experience within the powertrain, the system integration and the software program. That relationship from a supply-chain standpoint could must evolve. We could begin offering them with elements or not. We could accomplice collectively to go discover an applicable supply or we may match with a few of Zero’s current provide chain to supply to Polaris.

I feel answering these questions goes to be a number of the early duties, along with constructing these automobiles. No matter answer suits the enterprise and helps to supply phenomenal automobiles as rapidly and effectively as doable, we’re down to try this, as a result of it’s really a joint partnership. We each win as we produce superb automobiles and Polaris will get them to market.

BB: What’s the benefit of electrical on a bike, and does that translate to Polaris’s powersports market?

SP: First, I like to speak about experiences not simply product. An electrical motorbike is an expertise that engages all 5 senses. Identical to driving a gasoline motorbike. For 2 of these senses, your imaginative and prescient and your style are precisely the identical on a gasoline motorbike as they’re on an electrical motorbike. However together with your sense of scent, there’s no fumes, there’s no exhaust. From an acoustic standpoint, there’s a sound, you already know, clearly I drink the Kool-Assist, it’s a very pleasing sound. It doesn’t make a whole lot of noise that kinda drowns out what’s taking place round you. And for me, essentially the most transformative facet of an electrical motorbike is the sense of contact. There’s no vibration that makes your fingers numb, there’s no noise within the sign that interferes with this actually pure connection between the rider, the motorbike and the highway, or no matter floor you’re travelling on.

That’s the large distinction between gasoline and electrical, it simply engages three of the 5 senses in a totally totally different method.

Now, what makes us totally different and what provides us a bonus over some other bikes on the powertrain facet, basically we’ve been round for 14 years. We’ve received 14 years and thousands and thousands of miles of expertise on our automobiles that have been bought into the world in a business surroundings that buyers have been driving round. And as you do this, you discover these nook circumstances which might be actually arduous to uncover on check tracks or at pilot applications. On the core of what differentiates us, primary, the vitality and density required in a powersports utility is totally totally different from what you’d see in an vehicle or a bicycle. There are parts of weatherproofing and waterproofing. There’s a packaging problem so far as dimension and house contained in the automobile to make an efficient system. However greater than any of it, there’s a techniques integration piece.

When Zero began 14 years in the past, hooking up a battery to a controller to a motor and spinning the tire on any form of automobile was truly a very tough problem. It’s considerably simpler right now, however the integration of all of these techniques to get a very excessive stage of efficiency, reliability and security is a distinct set of challenges than what you expertise on the inner combustion engine facet.

If I needed to boil it down to at least one factor, it’s our working system, which is Cypher III. And as a lot as we’re an industrial firm that builds our personal automobiles and we’re a automobile firm that designs and builds bikes, we’re a software program firm. We’re shopper electronics as a lot as we’re a automobile. That central nervous system, the mind of our automobile, is mature and dependable. And I feel anyone else getting into this house goes to have a automobile mind that’s the mind of a toddler. I’ve children and I’ve lived with toddlers. They’re pleasant, however they’re basically unreliable human beings. They go to sleep at bizarre occasions, they’ve tantrums, they spit up. You don’t need the efficiency capabilities of an electrical automobile within the fingers of a toddler.

BB: It’s within the information proper now, so what’s your tackle Gavin Newsom’s 2035 EV mandate?

SP: Let’s get on the cellphone with Gavin, I’ve received questions for that man as effectively! (ha ha) Actually, as there are mandates at a state or federal stage, which we see lots, all the objectives that individuals put on the market for electrical automobiles, I feel it highlights that these are cleaner automobiles, and it brings consideration to the class for us. It’s clearly extra of a tailwind for our enterprise. I’ve by no means actually run the enterprise right here relying on these mandates to drive the enterprise ahead. They’re a pleasant potential tailwind, however our focus has all the time been on making automobiles that from a efficiency standpoint match the wants of our customers and match the passions that they’ve.

Reasonably than a push from a mandate, we’re all the time making an attempt to construct automobiles that pull customers in and picture what their life may very well be like with this automobile. We would like them to wish to purchase it, not that they’ve to purchase it. Clearly sustainability and ecology are a giant a part of what drives the individuals at Zero, however these mandates we aren’t pushing for them, relying on them, or counting on them to make the merchandise that we make.

BB: You’ve simply launched your largest product within the new SR/S in the midst of a world pandemic, so how has the rollout of that been?

SP: Yeah, after we launched the SR/F the response was extremely robust. We weren’t prepared for that response and have been scrambling on the manufacturing facet to be sure that we may provide sufficient bikes to fulfill demand. We realized our lesson, modified so many issues concerning the manufacturing course of, and have been able to go when SR/S launched. That launch was the most effective launch we’ve ever had, we had a vendor occasion in live performance with it, received a ton of wonderful protection, the critiques have been all implausible. After which coronavirus hit.

We have been lastly poised, not simply with the manufacturing facet, however with the automobile for the second, after which coronavirus hit and all the pieces simply form of froze. We re-forecast our gross sales in April and Could to replicate what we thought the market was going to do, and we’ve exceeded all of these gross sales forecasts, each for SR/S and for the enterprise. It clearly didn’t have the chance to supply the form of launch that we have been hoping for, as a result of clearly we form of misplaced a giant a part of the driving season.

The response has been superb, we nonetheless did a sturdy enterprise on it. However for us, we had all the pieces lined up and prepared based mostly on the unimaginable response to SR/F to have the ability to provide all the bikes individuals would wish, after which coronavirus shut down our manufacturing facility and we had the fires in Northern California that additionally had us shut down for 2 weeks as a result of we have been proper in one of many hearth complicated zones, and we have been evacuated. It’s nonetheless a very nice bike for us, however there are such a lot of issues which have us asking simply how huge may it have been if we had had a extra regular yr.

BB: In your time with the corporate, the place has the corporate seen essentially the most evolution, whether or not or not it’s with the corporate or with the surroundings by which it sells?

SP: First, when you consider the enterprise itself and what our level of differentiation is, on the very core of who we’re as a product firm, we created one thing that’s totally different from 99 % of the opposite choices available on the market. Having an electrical powertrain is simply basically totally different from something with an inner combustion engine. It’s a very good factor for our entrepreneurs to have a product that’s demonstrably totally different, and clearly I consider it’s a greater driving expertise.

One of many first issues we actually modified is that we had a product that was head and shoulders above everyone else on the electrical facet, however we hadn’t actually articulated that story very effectively. We have been main with a whole lot of rational info as a result of it’s a tech house. We have been displaying a whole lot of information and figures, whole value of possession, kilowatt hours, particular vary information, federal and state stage tax incentive buildings. And as a substitute, what we would have liked to do was get out of the best way of the efficiency of the automobile and actually begin articulating from an emotional and a cultural standpoint what these automobiles are like, to get individuals sufficient that they needed to return and lay a hand on one in all these bikes and take it for a trip.

That’s a really excessive class drawback to stroll into. To have the arduous work of innovating a complete cross-section of what conventional transportation is already in your again pocket, and simply must get out of your personal rattling option to inform the story effectively.

And the following factor that was a giant change was simply the platform. With the launch of Cypher III working system, then the SR/F and the SR/S, this subsequent technology of electrical bikes that we constructed, we have been the model that outlined the class of electrical bikes. You see lots of people are available in and declare management positions, who’s the main model, who has the most effective electrical motorbike. We outlined the class, we created the class. We’ve been the protagonist for it for 14 years.

Each time we launch a bike, we’re making historical past, so far as what the evolution of the two-wheel electrical house is. These automobiles are really going to be historic automobiles whenever you have a look at the transition from gasoline to electrical seems to be like.

These two issues, clarifying the model picture and launching the following technology, previous to this take care of Polaris, I’d have mentioned these are the 2 issues I’m most happy with in my profession with Zero. To deliver that EV expertise to the largest off-road model on the planet, it’s that very same form of historic occasion.

BB: What’s one thing that I’m lacking right here within the deal between Zero and Polaris? What’s one thing that you really want individuals to find out about this partnership?

SP: From the very starting, how we’ve interacted with the individuals at Polaris, the extent of professionalism, the extent of engagement and curiosity within the crew at Polaris, has been astounding. However I feel greater than that, from the very first assembly it was very clear that the cultures, there are such a lot of individuals inside each of those organizations that use these merchandise every single day. The cultural match between the 2 organizations I feel was one of many largest elements that received us to a spot the place this deal received completed.

It’s an unimaginable basis that we are able to stand on to construct an incredible enterprise partnership collectively.

BB: And final query, I’m positive you received’t reply, however when will we see a Zero-engineered electrical Indian Bike?

SP: Proper now the main focus of this deal is on their largest and most vital class, which is off-road automobiles and snowmobiles. I don’t blame you one bit for asking that, I’ve precisely the identical query. I get questions like this on a regular basis, it’s humorous. We’ll launch a brand new automobile and our sellers might be like “That is superior, it’s superb… so what’s coming subsequent?” and I’m like I’m right here right now to get you excited concerning the product we’re simply launching, and I can’t be trying on the subsequent factor proper now.


So there you’ve it. An interview with each of the bigwigs at each of the businesses concerned on this attention-grabbing and historic deal. I feel that is fairly superior. What about you?

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